HBD07.04.01 Shirt and Tie

Instead of going to the office...can we go to the beach?

braddumm@yahoo.com

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MY TWO CENTS ON BEAR FOUR ONE ONE
HBD07.04.01 Shirt and Tie
[info]braddumm
MY TWO CENTS ON BEAR FOUR ONE ONE

I’ve seen many posts about “what’s the big deal about making the exit” “It’s just a website” “There are many more just like it.” To some, that may be true, however, to me it’s nowhere near what the site has been to me for at least 3 – 4 years…and I’m going to try to keep this rant to a minimum…

I, by nature, am a very social creature. I love going out and being with friends and parties and bars and, if nothing else, just go to people watch. I love being in a crowd. I crave being with people. My partner, on the other hand, is more of a computer geek that loves online games and the like. He likes going and seeing friends, but is happy doing that maybe once a week (We’ve been together 12+ years now).

When I was introduced to Bear411, I was already in a happy, monogamous relationship and had a big circle of friends. My purpose of going on bear411 was to chat with friends and meet new friends while my partner played his online games. We’d sit in the same room and watch television and wind down from the workday in our respective ways…I on Bear411 and he on World or Warcraft (or at the time Everquest).

About two years ago, I was made aware of 3 Asian friends that were not welcomed into the fold of Bear411 I didn’t agree with that prejudice, nor did I understand how anyone in the gay community can perpetuate any kind of prejudice, since we are slammed with it on a daily basis by closed minded idiots in this world….but none the less, it does exist, and the operator of Bear411 happens to be one of these idiots. I was going to say something, but because his site is the Bear Chat Industry Leader for the meanwhile and I didn’t want to get blackballed from talking to my friends. So I didn’t say anything, and just felt bad for my friends that were pretty much treated like lepers…and felt guilty for not standing up for them…but I also haven’t forgotten about it.

Then recently, along comes Bobaloo, my friend and comedian, who is coming out with a CD/DVD. He made his post about a number of things that Bear411’s dictator has imposed on us that use his site. One, no free advertising or announcements for tour dates (that are community service, really). He wants his cut, so he won’t let Bobaloo put anything on his profile that would be for his friends. Two, he is censoring our conversations, so we can’t mention certain words, like the names of competing sites, etc. Hey – I’m paying for his site and he’s controlling me and not even telling me he’s doing so? I sent out about 20 IMs on bear411 using simple phrasing like “Are you moving your account over to another bear chat site” and not a single one of those messages were received. So I knew about the prejudice, the rudeness and now the censoring.

In a market economy, we are free to choose who and where we spend out dollars. When I learned about people leaving Bear411 over all these issues, and I had personal experience with them and the experience of my friends, I decided that I would tell all my friends that I would support leaving this old warm shoe called Bear411 and search out a new site that was more appreciative of the community as a whole, supported not only bears but those that like them, and didn’t do underhanded things to just benefit and profit for themselves. I heard about Bearciti.com, and I am happily going over there and learning and reestablishing myself there.

I’m still on bear411, nightly, at least in the interim. My subscription is paid through October this year, so I’m not making a big stink or sending nasty letters to the operator or any of that. Besides, my father always taught me to never burn a bridge…and that’s a valuable life’s lesson for me.

The reason isn’t because I don’t think he deserves to be “hit in the wallet” ‘for his past behavior..the reason is because I value the friendships I have there and don’t want to abandon THEM…not Bear411, cause I really don’t care about where the room is that we meet…just so that we do meet up and keep the comraderie going.

So, to be fully cyclical on this topic, it’s not as easy as “why don’t you just turn the website off.” That attitude is for someone that uses his online friendships casually and at an arm’s length. I’ve never had a friend that I do that with. If you want to be an “at arms length friend” with me, you are an acquaintance, not a friend…to me there is a difference.

Time for a ridiculous metaphor…if you lose your Mom (and you love your Mom like I do), you don’t just go out and get a new one because there are ten mothers out there on the market…If you lose your Mom, you greave for a bit, cry a bit, get angry a bit, hang on to what you can, and try to foster a new atmosphere where you can be comfortable and surrounded by loving surrogates, family members, friends and pets.

I am not leaving Bear411 on 2/14/07. I will hang on and let the market determine where the best new site will be to hang out with my pals. Until then, I’ll foster my relationships on more than one site. Eventually a better place will be the industry leader because Bear411 has already bought their plot at Forest Lawn, If something should happen and Bear411 changes it ways and is forgiven by the community, then I will be there in good graces and not have made a big stink and burned a bridge.

So for now, I’ll see you on Bearciti.com, Bearwww.com and Bear411.com until a new leader takes over. Then I’ll probably drop the lessor sites and stick where the party is.

I welcome your thoughts on all this…

HUGZ
Brad

You might want to read over Sluggo's posts on the topic. It might push you a little more towards leaving 411 for good. But I understand where you're coming from for sure.

Check my last post for Greg's latest response to the 411 criticisms...

Yes, I've been reading his posts along with the others right along. There's a lot of opinions on the subject and I felt mine was a little different than the others. It's the reason I posted it. I don't want to close a door that I can't walk through again, should things change; People change and their opinions change. I want Greg at Bear411 to take that route, if he can...it'd be better for all of us.

Heard and understood. Don't blame you at all.

I know a few guys that got rejected on Bear411 too. Luckily, they approved mine. But I think they are still wrong for being prejudice. As a gay man, we are already going through the same thing with sociaty. We should never have to deal with our own type. People are people, why do they have to not like us just because we don't have lots of hairs and big.

People sucks sometimes and not in a good way.

Yeah....sometimes...and sometimes they learn from their mistakes and change. All we can hope is that happens for Greg at Bear411...maybe all this will cause him to re-evaluate his view of the world...that would be awesome!

and I’m going to try to keep this rant to a minimum…

LOL Thank GAWD for small favors?!?!?!

I've got to be honest, and I hope that is what you are looking for when you asked for feedback on here.

I find your excuse to be weak. I totally understand what you are saying as far as friends, but the way I see it, if you are telling your friends that you are leaving bear411 for your own personal reasons, and NOT asking them to do it, unless they wish to do so, then I find your excuse weak.

Your friends will be your friends in or out of bear411. There are multitudes of other communication modes that do NOT include bear sites.

I left bear411 on July 2005 (as per my rant post back then), before I left, I let all my friends on there know my reasons for leaving and I never asked them to leave because of my reasons. I also gave them my email address, phone numbers, yahoo and AIM.

Some chose to keep in contact with me, and some didn't. My personal way of looking at it is, I gave them avenues to keep in touch and I did so with those that did. Those that replied back with their avenues of contact were recorded by me and I still keep in touch with them and even send Christmas cards.

All I am saying is that if you are using your friends as an excuse not to leave bear411, then I would have to question the friendship and not bear411.

OK, that was my small rant kept to a minimal... GRRRR

Hope I can still be your friend.....

Of course we are still friends, Tony. We are all entitled to our opinions. You must not understand what I was saying because the reason I made the statement was BECAUSE of my friends, not at thier expense. I'm not going to walk out of anywhere (well, if it's dangerous I will...haha) without letting the dust settle...Right now the dust is so thick you can barely see through it. I have asked NOONE to leave bear411 nor would I. It's not my business. I only make decisions for me. Most all my friends have my phone numbers, addresses, and email addresses and I talk to them there, too.

I totally don't understand why you are so angry over this, although it was a long rant...but you weren't forced to read it, either, you know. You can form opinions of me and my intensions and even my abilities to have friends...that is totally up to you. It affects me not in the least. I think you are I are friends. That's enough for me. HUGZ...and that is sincere if you're cynical about the sincerity of my response.

About two years ago, I was made aware of 3 Asian friends that were not welcomed into the fold of Bear411 I didn’t agree with that prejudice, nor did I understand how anyone in the gay community can perpetuate any kind of prejudice, since we are slammed with it on a daily basis by closed minded idiots in this world….

thank you.

I totally believe that...

Well-said and understandable.

Not burning bridges is indeed wise advice.

honestly
I just see so many other issues out there that deserve attention so much more than this.I find it laughable that this is turning into some civil rights movement.

If this really is the worst thing happening in the lives of all those that are having such a heated, angry, long winded fit over this....I want their lives.

These problems have been there for a long time...I knew about them...others knew about them...as each of us experience them, we decide(d) to stay or leave...and then we move on to the other earth shattering issues in our lives. Maybe I'm getting old and weary, but the energy being spent on bringing this mighty empire down (*yawn) is uselessly wasted.

This is the last of MY energy I'm going to waste discussing this non issue.

okay...well, thanks for that perspective, bud!

I'm sorry...I was interested in it, until I read where someone called it a "social justice issue"

but to go along with what you are saying in your post...
I've already seen guys post a rant declaring that they are proudly marching away from the evil wrongdoings of 411.
Three days later, I see a new profile by them on 411 and then a post saying..."I went to bearciti, but there weren't enough guys there, so I rejoined 411"

I'm not deleting any of my profiles...I don't pay for any of them..and yes...I'll eventually put one on bearciti too..but then again...I'm a needy attention whore...you know that.

ok..now THAT was the last energy I'll waste on it.



show me your butt.

I just see so many other issues out there that deserve attention so much more than this. ... If this really is the worst thing happening in the lives of all those that are having such a heated, angry, long winded fit over this....I want their lives.

You know, it is possible to be concerned about more than one thing at a time.

thus the term issueSSSSS
there are a dozen other things that I can instantly think of

There are so many more important things that Livejournal and sex. I think you should delete your Livejournal and Bear411 profiles and spent that time collecting food for starving orphans in Africa.

is that really the best you got?

Seems logical to me. Why are you spending this time bitching about people who are against Bear411 when, as you say, there are "so many other issues out there that deserve attention so much more than this"?

Physician, heal thyself.

I wasn't aware that you had any idea of what I do outside of LJ or 411...or...for that matter, know me at all
all you are doing is trying a little too hard to pick a fight or argument...so...please...go fight your good mighty fight...I'm gonna go get a soda.

And you're aware of what people who are against Bear411 do outside? You must be psychic.

Thank you for adding that bit about the 3 asian guys. {hugz} ^_^

yeah...prejudice sucks at every level...don't understand why that perpetuates since it is only ego-serving on a personal level that screams "you need to live like me!" It's rediculous. I'd think as a society, we'd understand how that works and be WAY past that by now....

Did anyone see how the Bear411 guy was fast to put an Asian guy on the front page tonight? How interesting!!

Yes, I was not and still not allowed to enter bear4/11 simply because I am a chaser. I prefer to stick to BearCity in this case; and I have already made a few friends.
HUGS

It's too bad they are continuing to do that on Bear411. I totally don't understand it...

I'm over on Bearciti - say "HI" if we're on at the same time or leave me amessage sometime (my handle over there is LBBearFan)...I usually check in there about once a day for messages...

HUGZ
Brad

I am not on bearciti I am on BearCity lol that makes a difference. I do check my messages every day. I am chaserforchubby on BearCity.

HUGS
Rich

I've never even heard of BearCity...I'll have to check it out. Most all of my bear411 friends that left b411 with disgust went to Bearciti...I really like it. It's free - check it out. They aren't prejudiced over there...or have screens on what you are writing to each other...

FREE?! lol, surprise surprise. Nothing is free. I guess it is free for now, they may/will tell you that "sorry guys, you have to pay" as it happend with bear41/1, bearww/w and others, that was very disapointing, especially when the service is not good or the best, usually happens with websites after some time. FREE does not always mean good. Well, bearcity has not got any prejudice + has real time webcams, which is fun to use sometimes :blush:


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